Kaden: How do you know our teacher, Scott Abbott?
Sam: Oh we’ve been friends for, gosh, forty years or more.
Kaden: how’d you meet him?
Sam: Well, we both taught at BYU for a while and became friends there working on academic freedom issues. We were both happy to move on to UVU. I was in science and he was in the integrated studies and humanities. We continued our friendship and began to ride our mountain bikes almost every day—up on the side of Timpanogos, unless we hauled them somewhere: Moab or Teasdale of southern Utah or somewhere. And we skied all winter. Backcountry skiing all across the Wasatch Mountains. Some of this went into a book we wrote together: Wild Rides and Wildflowers: Philosophy and Botany with Bikes.
Sam: Oh we’ve been friends for, gosh, forty years or more.
Kaden: how’d you meet him?
Sam: Well, we both taught at BYU for a while and became friends there working on academic freedom issues. We were both happy to move on to UVU. I was in science and he was in the integrated studies and humanities. We continued our friendship and began to ride our mountain bikes almost every day—up on the side of Timpanogos, unless we hauled them somewhere: Moab or Teasdale of southern Utah or somewhere. And we skied all winter. Backcountry skiing all across the Wasatch Mountains. Some of this went into a book we wrote together: Wild Rides and Wildflowers: Philosophy and Botany with Bikes.
Kaden: What got you into studying the lake?
Sam: Well, I finished my PhD at BYU years ago and a position came open for a botanist and they hired me. I was interested in Utah Lake and took my first sample there fifty years ago last fall. I’ve been looking at the lake ever since.
Kaden: What are your thoughts on it after fifty years?
Sam: Well, the lake is not nearly as bad as many people think. That’s arguable of course. Major changes in the lake caused by European invasion occurred in an area inhabited by Native peoples. The colonists began irrigating and running return water into the lake which silted up the lake. This in particular harmed the breeding grounds for the fish spawning in the lake. It’s a shallow lake and the changes were very bad for the native species. For example, the Bonneville cutthroat trout was a native species that grew up to several pounds. You often hear that the seagulls saved the lives of starving Mormons who came into the Salt Lake Valley; it was the fish in Utah Lake that saved people here.
Sam: Well, I finished my PhD at BYU years ago and a position came open for a botanist and they hired me. I was interested in Utah Lake and took my first sample there fifty years ago last fall. I’ve been looking at the lake ever since.
Kaden: What are your thoughts on it after fifty years?
Sam: Well, the lake is not nearly as bad as many people think. That’s arguable of course. Major changes in the lake caused by European invasion occurred in an area inhabited by Native peoples. The colonists began irrigating and running return water into the lake which silted up the lake. This in particular harmed the breeding grounds for the fish spawning in the lake. It’s a shallow lake and the changes were very bad for the native species. For example, the Bonneville cutthroat trout was a native species that grew up to several pounds. You often hear that the seagulls saved the lives of starving Mormons who came into the Salt Lake Valley; it was the fish in Utah Lake that saved people here.
They would go to the rivers feeding into the lake during breeding season and they would stretch nets across the river or pitchfork the big fish onto the shore and take wagon loads of trout to Salt Lake City. And they actually paid their givings, tithing they called it, to the Mormon Church to pay their share. That kept an awful lot of the people alive during the early years of habitation. The pioneers also began to plow and irrigate the fields in those early days, but they had no control over the silt runoff. So, at the same time they were removing large amounts of native fish, they were ruining the spawning grounds. Because of the siltation and the loss of the native species, the Utah—the LDS Church established a fisheries council controlling Utah Lake. They introduced some fifty or so species of fish into the Lake. And as you might know, the one that “took off” is the carp. Unfortunately, the carp root in the lake bottom; they eat emergent vegetation that grows up out of the bottom of the lake and they roil the bottom. The lake has never been a clear blue water lake; it’s always been turbid—but the increased turbidity made it more difficult for the native fish and changed the ecosystem. The emergent vegetation which was very important to the ecosystem of the lake, was largely lost. So the lake has indeed changed dramatically; it’s not in the condition it was before European colonization. Early on, nobody paid much attention to the condition of the lake.
We ran raw sewage into it until the 20’s, and still were not taking care of the sewage appropriately until the 60s. As a result, there is an abundance of extra phosphorus in the lake, which is very efficient for allowing cyanobacteria—blue-green algae—to grow. And, so the lake has large “blooms” in summer of cyanobacteria. But those first years I was collecting, the lake was not that different from now. There have been algae “blooms” for a long, long time.
Kaden: What’s the difference between then and now? |
Sam: Not much, except for the loss of emergent vegetation on the shoreline. Some people think that the cyanobacteria are beginning to clear up a bit, that we’re now having less prominent blooms. I’m not convinced of that. Time will tell. The lake also supports a large diatom flora—do you know what diatoms are?
Klaesara: I don’t.
Klaesara: I don’t.
Sam: They’re small algae with silicon (opaline) shells and they are the bottom of the food chain for lots of zooplankters. Zooplankters are eaten by other invertebrates which are eaten by fish and that’s a major food chain in the lake. And so the ecosystem of the lake began changing. Silting the bottom, introducing carp, and making the lake more turbid changed lake fauna dramatically with the native species disappearing and carp exploding to over 90 percent of the animal biomass in the lake in the last few decades. A program to drastically decrease the carp biomass is underway and I’m working with some researchers who are studying methods to decrease the carp even further. When carp spawn in the spring, they come up very shallow and root, and spawn, and so these researchers are putting out our artificial turf along the edge of the lake; the carp love to lay their eggs on the turf. So they lay their eggs on our artificial turf and the turf is pulled out, getting rid of billions of carp eggs.
And recently there’s been a huge debate about whether or not to limit phosphorus by making the sewage plants more efficient, which would probably limit the cyanophite growth, but it’s a debate. The reason is because Utah Lake is in the bottom of a geological mesotrophic basin, and the whole basin is Mesozoic in era and most of the rocks are loaded with phosphates, so naturally the lake has high phosphate. The argument now is: do we spend a hundred million dollars improving the sewage treatment plants or not? My answer is yes, we do. We are adding more and more people to the basin; the population here is slated to double in the next fifty years, and we’ll just be adding more and more phosphorus to the water.
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There’s also the big debate about island building on the lake by a couple of entrepreneurs that have been exposed as fraudulent, an exposure that has killed the project for the moment because it was illegal from the start. I and many others worked very hard to stop the island building. It’s not going to happen. They claimed with no scientific basis at all that dredging the lake to make it deeper would make it healthier. There’s no scientific backing for that.
There are a lot of interesting studies going on presently. What would happen if we brought back the native bivalves, the clams? What would happen if we brought back emergent vegetation? We’ve been making enclosures about thirty fee square that are fenced. We plant emergent vegetation, keep the carp out, and see what happens to the water, to the fauna and flora, and the fish species when we allow the emergent vegetation to grow. This year we’re going to do the same thing again, plus add the bivalves, the clams and mussels and what have you, the native species. And then, if we keep removing the carp and if we can reintroduce emergent vegetation, I think the lake will be in pretty good condition.
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I’ve been in and out of the lake for fifty years. I swim in it every summer. I have no fear of the lake in fact, virologically and bacteriologically, it’s a pretty clean body of water. It’s the cyanobacteria that make everybody say, “Damn, terrible lake!” Plus, Utahns like their water deep and blue and with trout. So many think this is a dirty lake. If this lake was in Oklahoma it would be a treasure. People would love it. But not in Utah.
Kaden: What do you do for the flora of the lake would you say?
Kaden: What do you do for the flora of the lake would you say?
Sam: The flora? Well this summer we’ll be planting some emergent vegetation and the big issue is if we can keep the carp out they won’t kill the emergent vegetation. So the vegetation will have the wherewithal to propagate, to grow more and more. And that’s the biggest change I can think about in the lake, since European invasion. I think it was John Fremont and company who sailed the lake in a small boat.
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They talked about not being able to find the actual shoreline of the lake because there was so much emergent vegetation. There’s no place on the lake that’s like that now. So reestablishing some of that by getting rid of the carp, and perhaps removing some of the phosphorus to change the nature of the flora and fauna and food webs, I think we can make some wonderful changes in the lake. But the moment I say that I want to say, the lake is not in bad shape now. People just need to learn to enjoy it.
Kaden: What got you so passionate towards this? I can hear it throughout your voice.
Kaden: What got you so passionate towards this? I can hear it throughout your voice.
Sam: I love the lake; it’s a wonderful resource. Desert lakes are to be treasured, and this is a very, unusual ecosystem. It’s slightly saline, particularly in the south, and it’s eutrophic which means it’s very productive. And my research has found four hundred different species of diatoms in it. That’s an extremely rich lake, and it’s rich in other species too, although probably not as rich in the fauna now because of ecological damage. So I became interested because I love it. I think it’s a wonderful desert resource that should be enjoyed by us all. I think it’s a splendid system.
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Klaesara: Have you lived here all your life?
Sam: Yes, I’ve been in the area most of my life, but I’ve done work in various other parts of the world.
Klaesara: What places?
Sam: We have worked on the Hawaiian islands for a long time, we’ve worked in the desert systems in New Mexico and Arizona. I’ve worked in stream systems on the East Coast, and Alaska to some extent.
Sam: Yes, I’ve been in the area most of my life, but I’ve done work in various other parts of the world.
Klaesara: What places?
Sam: We have worked on the Hawaiian islands for a long time, we’ve worked in the desert systems in New Mexico and Arizona. I’ve worked in stream systems on the East Coast, and Alaska to some extent.
Sam: So have you guys been out to the lake?
Klaesara: Yes, it’s really pretty. Sam: It’s lovely. Scott’s son Ben is one of the guys who really studies the lake a lot. Kaden: I wanted to talk to you about the shell of the diatom; I was kind of curious myself. Sam: I can show you some photos. |
Kaden: And I know that you do some artistic work as well. Our professor showed us. You have to be selling it on ebay or something?
Sam: Oh no, I never did, people do, but it was always too much work for me. I wanted to do my science.
Kaden: It was very beautiful, the one you showcased for him.
Sam: Oh no, I never did, people do, but it was always too much work for me. I wanted to do my science.
Kaden: It was very beautiful, the one you showcased for him.
Sam: We’re working on a project in Utah Lake right now where we’re looking at diatoms down through cores that we’ve drilled. I have identified species coming out of the cores. Let’s see if I can show you some of these.
Kaden: I feel like the shells for diatoms are very special. I watched at a lot of videos. They are very abundant and don’t they help photosynthesis? Sam: Diatoms are photosynthetic organisms, yes indeed. And in the lake itself they are the second most abundant algae in the plankton of Utah Lake. The blue-greens and dinoflagellates are more abundant but diatoms are abundant as well. |
Let’s see what we’ve got here. You see this one is about 30 micrometers long. The photo is taken with a magnificent microscope, you can’t see them with the naked eye. These are all abundant in Utah Lake. That one is only 12 and a half micrometers long, which is about a fiftieth of a width of a hair. The lake itself has some very unusual species in it. This is one of them by the way: it folds inward, folds outward, and it’s just a beautiful, beautiful thing.
Klaesara: Some of the diatoms look like snowflakes. |
Klaesara: I think you have a good eye for it.
Sam: Thank you, but I know my limits: I am a scientist.
Sam: Here are a bunch. And they’re so tiny: these are about 6 micrometers long. They’re just tiny! They’re very difficult to photograph appropriately.
Klaesara: How do you find the diatoms in the water?
Sam: We go into the lake and take samples of the water and then we filter them. It’s a long process. They have to be boiled in nitric acid, and washed and washed and washed. Then they’re mounted in a very high resolution mountant, a special mountant that allows you to see them well in the microscope. I’d be happy to give you some photos if you would like them.
Klaesara: I would like that. They look like fossils.
Sam: Yes, they do, and in fact there are lots and lots of fossil diatoms. I’ve done work on many of them as well.
Klaesara: How do you tell the difference? Is it in the shape?
Sam: Yes. You’ve got shape, the ends, and then oh all kinds of cell wall decorations. These, for example, are called costae or ribs. These are lines of pores. And this structure is called the raphe, and the position of the raphe, how big the nobs are, the numbers of all of these things, those are the ways you tell them apart.
Sam: Thank you, but I know my limits: I am a scientist.
Sam: Here are a bunch. And they’re so tiny: these are about 6 micrometers long. They’re just tiny! They’re very difficult to photograph appropriately.
Klaesara: How do you find the diatoms in the water?
Sam: We go into the lake and take samples of the water and then we filter them. It’s a long process. They have to be boiled in nitric acid, and washed and washed and washed. Then they’re mounted in a very high resolution mountant, a special mountant that allows you to see them well in the microscope. I’d be happy to give you some photos if you would like them.
Klaesara: I would like that. They look like fossils.
Sam: Yes, they do, and in fact there are lots and lots of fossil diatoms. I’ve done work on many of them as well.
Klaesara: How do you tell the difference? Is it in the shape?
Sam: Yes. You’ve got shape, the ends, and then oh all kinds of cell wall decorations. These, for example, are called costae or ribs. These are lines of pores. And this structure is called the raphe, and the position of the raphe, how big the nobs are, the numbers of all of these things, those are the ways you tell them apart.
Klaesara: So what we just looked at, was a fossil diatom?
Sam: This is recent. I’m not sure I have any fossils handy here . Kaden: I’d like to hear more about the shell. I heard that the shell is very unique compared to a lot of things. Sam: It’s opal. It’s opaline silicon, and it’s deposited in a wonderful way along filaments, and it’s really amazing. They last for a long, long time. |
Klaesara: So for the average person to find diatoms, is it an expensive process if I wanted to do it?
Sam: You’d go down and collect water and just observe with a microscope. Making permanent mounts is a little bit iffy—dangerous because you have to filter them down and then boil them in nitric acid. So you don’t want to get that on you or in your eyes or what have you.
Klaesara: So I assume you do this in a home lab?
Sam: You’d go down and collect water and just observe with a microscope. Making permanent mounts is a little bit iffy—dangerous because you have to filter them down and then boil them in nitric acid. So you don’t want to get that on you or in your eyes or what have you.
Klaesara: So I assume you do this in a home lab?
Sam: We’re in the dry lab here and that’s the wet lab over there that looks like a kitchen. This is my scope: this costs the same as a Subaru, and it’s got a wonderful photo system on it.
Klaesara: So your microscope, what type is it? Sam: It’s a Zeiss A-1. It’s got an auto camera on it that calculates its own exposures unless you want to override it Kaden: How’d you get it to your house? Did you have to pay for it? |
Sam: It was shipped, and yes, I had to buy it.
Kaden: What else do you like to do instead of science?
Sam: I used to ride my bike before my back went bad, but I can walk and lots and lots of reading.
Klaesara: What do you like to read?
Sam: You name it.
Klaesara: Lord of the Rings?
Sam: Yes, I’ve read that a couple of times. I like fantasy. If it’s good fantasy.
Kaden: How long have you had this microscope here?
Sam: I’ve had this one for about ten years. I have another one that’s just as good I’ve had for about fifteen years.
Kaden: What else do you like to do instead of science?
Sam: I used to ride my bike before my back went bad, but I can walk and lots and lots of reading.
Klaesara: What do you like to read?
Sam: You name it.
Klaesara: Lord of the Rings?
Sam: Yes, I’ve read that a couple of times. I like fantasy. If it’s good fantasy.
Kaden: How long have you had this microscope here?
Sam: I’ve had this one for about ten years. I have another one that’s just as good I’ve had for about fifteen years.
Kaden: I’m assuming you’ve had a lot of microscopes in your time; is there a certain one you prefer over another?
Sam: I like the Zeiss A-1. This is the best light microscope you can get. Let’s look at a living specimen. This is a diatom with its chloroplasts in it. And those are golden colored because they have a slightly different kind of chlorophyll. That’s quite a pretty thing. You’ve got me thinking back to my early work on Utah Lake. |
I was very interested at the time in pollution and its impact on diatoms/algae and I still am. Geneva Steel was there and I began looking at the lake at various locations and comparing it to the outflow of Geneva Steel and I figured out a lot of stuff and of course they didn't like me much. They actually threatened to get me fired and I just laughed at them and kept working.
Kaden: How long were you the Dean of Science at UVU?
Sam: 15 years.
Kaden: How did it feel when you resigned?
Sam: Well, I liked being Dean and my faculty liked me, but the time came. I will send you some diatom photos for your website.
Klaesara: I like the ones you have showed us so far.
Kaden: Besides biking, what do you like to do then?
Sam: We still go to the back country a lot, and still spend a lot of time in the Tetons.
Klaesara: So like camping and backpacking?
Sam: Yeah, well not backpacking due to the fact that I don't want to push my back too far.
Klaesara: That’s fair
Kaden: How long were you the Dean of Science at UVU?
Sam: 15 years.
Kaden: How did it feel when you resigned?
Sam: Well, I liked being Dean and my faculty liked me, but the time came. I will send you some diatom photos for your website.
Klaesara: I like the ones you have showed us so far.
Kaden: Besides biking, what do you like to do then?
Sam: We still go to the back country a lot, and still spend a lot of time in the Tetons.
Klaesara: So like camping and backpacking?
Sam: Yeah, well not backpacking due to the fact that I don't want to push my back too far.
Klaesara: That’s fair
Kaden: I have one question, the Spanish fork hot pots… I have heard there is a new bacteria within them. Are you familiar with that?
Sam: It's not uncommon, but don’t know a lot about these. Kaden: So what's your overall thoughts about hot pots then? Sam: Oh I love them, everytime I find one I strip down naked and get into it. |
Kaden: Do you find them dangerous from all the people that do the same things?
Sam: I have never felt danger in wild places or springs except from people. So I have been to hot pots that I have driven away from, due to it not looking like the safest place. Here is some harmful algal bloom from a little while ago.
Klaesara: That would be awesome.
Kaden: What is your prediction regarding Utah lake throughout the next 5 to 10 to 50 years? Is it a good note or bad note?
Sam: I have never felt danger in wild places or springs except from people. So I have been to hot pots that I have driven away from, due to it not looking like the safest place. Here is some harmful algal bloom from a little while ago.
Klaesara: That would be awesome.
Kaden: What is your prediction regarding Utah lake throughout the next 5 to 10 to 50 years? Is it a good note or bad note?
Sam: I actually think that we will come to like it more.
Kaden: If you don't mind me asking, what is the future of your studies? Sam: Yeah so we are going to keep working on Utah Lake for a while, and I have a couple of other things in mind. But I'm getting too damn old for this. Kaden: I don't blame you. I would probably rather travel. |
Sam: Well, Nancy and I have traveled an awfully lot. Now the airports are too full.
Klaesara: Oh yes, with everyone getting stir crazy.
Sam: (Looking at another sample) Oh, that's a pretty thing. That's a pretty rare diatom in Utah. Very rare, it just doesn't show up here much. These are other types of algae. There are two diatoms … called centric diatoms, round in face view. This is a colonial diatom, 1-cell thick to make a colony that looks like a wafer or a cookie. It is comprised of 100% Fragilaria crotonensis cells, which are pennate diatoms.
Kaden: They are very clear. I feel like all my microscopic work is not anything close
Klaesara: Oh, I like that one.
Sam: That one is called Staurastrum. It sort of looks like an asterisk.
Kaden: So you said you were optimistic towards Utah Lake. How come certain people are not? What would you say? I feel like the majority is not really optimistic.
Sam: Well, things are changing. We had those two guys who wanted to make the islands for real estate profits. They spent an awfully lot of money, some of which came from the legislature to make people believe that the lake is a garbage lake.
Klaesara: Oh yes, with everyone getting stir crazy.
Sam: (Looking at another sample) Oh, that's a pretty thing. That's a pretty rare diatom in Utah. Very rare, it just doesn't show up here much. These are other types of algae. There are two diatoms … called centric diatoms, round in face view. This is a colonial diatom, 1-cell thick to make a colony that looks like a wafer or a cookie. It is comprised of 100% Fragilaria crotonensis cells, which are pennate diatoms.
Kaden: They are very clear. I feel like all my microscopic work is not anything close
Klaesara: Oh, I like that one.
Sam: That one is called Staurastrum. It sort of looks like an asterisk.
Kaden: So you said you were optimistic towards Utah Lake. How come certain people are not? What would you say? I feel like the majority is not really optimistic.
Sam: Well, things are changing. We had those two guys who wanted to make the islands for real estate profits. They spent an awfully lot of money, some of which came from the legislature to make people believe that the lake is a garbage lake.
Klaesara: So they could get more money?
Sam: Yes, so that they could get the project approved and so on. They spent a lot of money doing that. A lot of legislators bought in, as did the governor. So they all started saying that Utah Lake is a terrible system. But it's not, it is not a terrible system. They don't know what they are talking about. The lake used to be better, we all need to care for it. And there are many people work on that. For example, there is a big project, a several million-dollar project on restoring many acres of the Provo River delta at Utah Lake. |
The delta will process water, take nutrients from the water, will have emergent vegetation, great places for spawning, and we did that in Hobble Creek as well. We are going to do that in the Spanish Fork River as well. And more people are going to all of a sudden one day say: “hey we are so lucky to have these rivers and this lake.” Another thing the lake does is change our climate due to evaporation. So it puts more water into the atmosphere, changes our rainfall pattern, and so forth, and we do not want that to go away. I also think that if you look at the development in Vineyard and American Fork, for example, those people love the lake. In the next decade there will be a continuous hiking, biking, walking trail, all around the lake.
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And Nancy and I, my spouse and I walk on it quite a bit now. There are big pieces of it that are done, some of which go through beautiful emergent vegetation lands. I just think that people are going to wake up and say “wow, this is something much better than we ever thought.”
Kaden: Very beautiful as well.
Sam: It is beautiful. When I started studying it 50 years ago, I just kinda fell in love with it. This is a splendid resource.
Kaden: Very beautiful as well.
Sam: It is beautiful. When I started studying it 50 years ago, I just kinda fell in love with it. This is a splendid resource.
There are some like it in Australia, some like it in Turkey, Syria, and Bolivia… but Utah Lake is pretty special. I just happen to find it very cool, and the more I study it, the more I like it.
Kaden: You have touched upon the diatom shells a few times. Would you say a bit more about that? Sam: There are only a very few organisms that use silica in their metabolism to make cell walls. Most species use carbon. So they made that adaptation early on, 60 something million years ago. |
And then they just diversified all over the place. They are about 20 million species of diatoms and they all are made of that opaline silicon that is so damn beautiful.
Sam: (looking at another specimen)
Kaden: That is beautiful.
Klaesara: Wow.
Sam: That is pretty, Isn't it?
Kaden: It is so detailed, wow.
Klaesara: Do you notice that diatoms look different from different places in the world? Or do they look quite similar?
Sam: Both. This is one of our books on diatoms of the Hawaiian Islands and one on hot springs out in the west desert. And one on Utah Lake.
Kaden: How long did it take you to write that one? It looks quite complex.
Sam: This one actually took many years.These are all Utah Lake Diatoms. They are in the bottom sediment. If you just go out and sample the mud, these are the diatoms that you would find in the mud. Isn't that amazing, look at the diversity of them. Many different species.
Kaden: What do you use Utah Lake for besides studying and observation? Do you go out there with your family?
Sam: Oh yes, swimming. Water skiing, I haven't skied in a long time. But those types of things. We used to go to the canal, and when it froze we ice skated.
Klaesara: This is my favorite so far, this one right here. It just looks really pretty, do you mind if I take a picture of it?
Sam: Of course not. If you wanted any of these photos, I think these are posted in the BYU library. Your UVU cards work in the BYU library.
Klaesara: Maybe, hopefully.
Kaden: I love to see someone fascinated with one subject.
Sam: It is fine, isn't it? The world will open up to you guys. You are young, smart, and interesting. Well anyway, thanks for coming by.
Klaesara: Thank you.
Sam: My pleasure, if you need to come again or want to come again, give me a call.
Kaden and Klaesara: Thank you again.
Sam: (looking at another specimen)
Kaden: That is beautiful.
Klaesara: Wow.
Sam: That is pretty, Isn't it?
Kaden: It is so detailed, wow.
Klaesara: Do you notice that diatoms look different from different places in the world? Or do they look quite similar?
Sam: Both. This is one of our books on diatoms of the Hawaiian Islands and one on hot springs out in the west desert. And one on Utah Lake.
Kaden: How long did it take you to write that one? It looks quite complex.
Sam: This one actually took many years.These are all Utah Lake Diatoms. They are in the bottom sediment. If you just go out and sample the mud, these are the diatoms that you would find in the mud. Isn't that amazing, look at the diversity of them. Many different species.
Kaden: What do you use Utah Lake for besides studying and observation? Do you go out there with your family?
Sam: Oh yes, swimming. Water skiing, I haven't skied in a long time. But those types of things. We used to go to the canal, and when it froze we ice skated.
Klaesara: This is my favorite so far, this one right here. It just looks really pretty, do you mind if I take a picture of it?
Sam: Of course not. If you wanted any of these photos, I think these are posted in the BYU library. Your UVU cards work in the BYU library.
Klaesara: Maybe, hopefully.
Kaden: I love to see someone fascinated with one subject.
Sam: It is fine, isn't it? The world will open up to you guys. You are young, smart, and interesting. Well anyway, thanks for coming by.
Klaesara: Thank you.
Sam: My pleasure, if you need to come again or want to come again, give me a call.
Kaden and Klaesara: Thank you again.