Interviewed by
Klaesara Bybee & Victor Pereyra & Nathanael Petersen
Klaesara Bybee & Victor Pereyra & Nathanael Petersen
Mary Murdock Meyer
Chief Executive of the Timpanogos Tribe Timpanogostribe.com |
Klaesara BybeeThe first question I have is: tell me about yourself, your life, your interests?
Well, living on the reservation life hasn’t always been easy. Especially where we’re in the situation we are, with what has happened here. It has been a very difficult life, being not Ute, so not included in anything there, and not white so not included in anything there. We’ve kind of been outcasts, treated as second-class citizens. I’ve grown up for the most part I just—you know you grow up thinking it’s you, there’s something wrong with you. And it was after my father died, I got political because he used to sit up night after night with law books and after he passed away it sparked something in me and I decided to find out what happened to our people and why we’re in the situation we are in. And that’s what started all the research. In doing that, I have been assaulted by police officers, I’ve been surrounded by police officers, I’ve had my water meter yanked out of the ground, I’ve suffered what you would call economic sanctioning where I wasn’t able to work, so it’s been a difficult path but I was a young woman when I started the research and now I’m an old lady so it’s been a long haul.
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Thank you so much for sharing that. And another question along with that, in regards to the history of your tribe with the lake, I watched a video of you talking a little bit about it and I was wondering if you could touch on that if you’re comfortable?
The lake helped sustain life, and it’s very important because without the fish and the waters, people die. I mean we have to have water. It served a multitude of purposes, and years ago our people used to host a fish festival, and all the neighboring–I guess they call them bands now–but all the neighboring peoples would gather and we would have horse racing and gambling and trade with each other. If you beaded a purse and I beaded a necklace and you wanted the necklace, I’d trade you for the purse, that kind of thing. There was a lot of that going on. It was also a time–because tribes are basically family units–when if you had a young woman that was ready for marriage, then that’s when she would be presented to the people. And then she could find a mate within one of the neighboring communities so that she wasn’t marrying her own family. It would be, say, if the Northwesterns were there and the Easterns and the Westerns and the Goshutes, then you could get your mate. You would still be the same kind of Indian but you’d get your mate out of one of these other groups, and then either she would go with them, or he would stay there. But that’s how they would have courting rituals and all this stuff during the festival, which is something that Jake Holdaway with the Walkara Way project is wanting to set his place up where we could do that again.
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Timpanogos Tribe: Timpanogostribe.com
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That’s really cool. So are you personally with the Walkara Way Project or helping with that as well?
Yes, I know Jake, we went up and met him. He showed us what he wanted to do, and I haven’t talked to him for awhile, but yeah. I’m in full support of that. (https://utahlake.org/walkara-way-project/)
So along with preserving natural bodies of water in general, I was wondering if you’d heard of, with the Great Salt Lake, I believe his name’s Darren Parry?
He’s Northwestern Shoshone, yeah.
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I was wondering if you knew of him or about what he was doing
Yes, I know Darren.
And what are your thoughts on how more Native voices could be included with advisory councils regarding natural resources?
I think it would be important because there are simple little things that Natives did that are not in mainstream society nowadays. The first thing they did with both lakes was cut off their water supplies. I mean Provo River was diverted away from Utah Lake, so that people could have water. Now the Delta Project (https://www.provoriverdelta.us/) is putting some back in, and then same with the Great Salt Lake they cut off—there are two rivers—they cut off up there, that aren’t putting water into that lake anymore. And, if you cut off the water supply, how do you expect it to get water? I mean that’s–to me–common sense, but it’s not something that’s money-making so it’s not up front I guess.
I was wondering, with your beliefs or tribal beliefs in particular, is water considered to have a spiritual significance as well?
Yes. It’s highly spiritual, yes.
Thank you. And along with that, are there any ways that perhaps as a class on our website, or in general, we can support your work or other people who are also fighting for other Native voices to be heard? Is there any way we can promote that?
Write to your senators, write to your congresspeople let them know, hey, this area is important. Write to these people, write to the Governor, let him know that the Timpanogos people still exist and they need to be acknowledged, and then just support people like Ben Abbott. There’s a group right now wanting to put up a monument up where Fort Utah is now, in memoriam of all of our people that died there. And so, things like that, that are taking place out there, that’s being handled by Sara Graham and Wayne Leavitt, just be in support. One of the things with that monument that we want to do there is educate people. It’s going to be an educational place if it passes and gets put up. It’s where people can look at it and see who we are, number one, and see a family tree kind of thing on there, with how we were moved to the reservation, and just some history. We also have some other things that we’d like to put there: a deer hide with a story on it written in what they call petroglyph style–and the interpretation with it is really a cute little story–but display things like that in monument style, just so it’s an educational place where people are going to see the Fort Utah canon, and also see what that canon did. You know, it educates people as to what really took place there, and it would be right there on Geneva Road so it’s right close to the lake. You ask if the lake had spirituality; everything has a spiritual sense. The rocks, the trees, the grasses, the animals, all of these things have significance and importance, and when you destroy the water you destroy everything else. And so, what I would like to see is no more dumping of chemicals, or human waste, into that lake, and I’d like to see it—I know there are several scientists working on it right now–but I would like to see it cleaned up better than it is and taken better care of.
Absolutely. I agree.
Not just for us. Because we’re not there, well some of us are, in fact one of Chief Tabby’s offspring lives right on Geneva Road there. So some of our people are still out there, but most of our people aren’t. But that doesn’t take away from the importance of the lake and what it means to our people because, like I said, it’s life-giving. It was water. It was a place of happiness and festivities and life.
Yeah I think that’s super important. I was also wanting to ask: do you have any other people you would recommend that we could talk to or interview as well with our class project?
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Some of the council, you might want to talk to, let me check with them and see which ones of them would be willing.
Thank you. I think that was all of my questions; one of my other classmates can ask you some of their questions now if you’re willing. Thank you so much for your time.
Nathanael Petersen
I can go next if that works fine. I was wondering what sort of practices, other than the fish festival you mentioned earlier, that have been done to sort of nurture and take care of the lake historically, and if these can be brought back.
Prayer ceremonies; our people were people of prayer. Sweat lodges were very important. A sweat lodge gets kind of misinterpreted by different people as to what it is but it’s actually a place of prayer. You go in and you pray. It’s dark in there, so the one thing that I think is way beneficial to it is you can’t see other people so when you are praying you are alone with the creator. You can’t judge other people by what they see. And all you hear is voices or prayers. And so you’re not so apt to judge this person. Where if you’re in a church setting, praying, everybody's staring at you and you know people are placing judgements on what you’re saying and what you’re doing, where, in a sweat lodge it’s not like that. It’s personal, it's private and everybody’s in there together, praying for each other. And you don’t pray for yourself, you pray for your family, or someone who is ill, or you pray for the people. It’s other people’s duty to pray for you. You don’t pray for yourself.
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There is also the sun dance, which is a time of fasting and prayer. It’s the same concept of prayer when you go in. And you have to be pure, because you are going to fast and pray for three days in the hot sun. A lot of people have looked at that as sun worship, but that’s not what it is, it is a time of sacrifice, fasting and prayer for the people, the lake, whatever you’re praying for at that time. So those are a couple of the ceremonies that have taken place. I know there are prayer ceremonies that have been happening since we were first notified.
I was hoping you could elaborate more on this issue of recognition that you’ve mentioned. I did a bit of reading and found this recent lawsuit Timpanogos vs. Conway; I was wondering if you could elaborate on that too.
That was brought against the state of Utah for arresting our people for hunting on the reservation. In the court the judge asked the state what they were even doing on the reservation. The big issue was whether or not we could be in court, and so that’s what went to the 10th circuit. And the 10th circuit ruled that yes, we had the right to be because we had a legitimate legal grievance with the governor and that we have a congressional act, therefore we do not need federal recognition in order to exercise our treaty rights. However, anytime we do anything it's “where's your federal recognition?” Well Congress trumps the Interior Department when it comes to Indian affairs; Congress is the authority and we have a congressional act. So we’ve been dealing with the Interior Department to try to rectify that and try and get them to put us on the list just so we don’t have to deal with that every time we have an issue. It’s a long, grueling process; we’ve been dealing with the Interior since 1999, which makes no sense to me. They have all of our lineage clear to the 1700’s of everyone of our members. They have all of our documents, which are documents we sent were either congressional, Interior, solicitor reports. All these major governmental entities, those are our documents. Agency reports, our rolls, all these things. So we’re still just waiting. You should write a letter to them, if you feel like it, and say “hey, what's the deal here? What’s the hold-up?”
I think that hits all my main ones, thank you!
I was hoping you could elaborate more on this issue of recognition that you’ve mentioned. I did a bit of reading and found this recent lawsuit Timpanogos vs. Conway; I was wondering if you could elaborate on that too.
That was brought against the state of Utah for arresting our people for hunting on the reservation. In the court the judge asked the state what they were even doing on the reservation. The big issue was whether or not we could be in court, and so that’s what went to the 10th circuit. And the 10th circuit ruled that yes, we had the right to be because we had a legitimate legal grievance with the governor and that we have a congressional act, therefore we do not need federal recognition in order to exercise our treaty rights. However, anytime we do anything it's “where's your federal recognition?” Well Congress trumps the Interior Department when it comes to Indian affairs; Congress is the authority and we have a congressional act. So we’ve been dealing with the Interior Department to try to rectify that and try and get them to put us on the list just so we don’t have to deal with that every time we have an issue. It’s a long, grueling process; we’ve been dealing with the Interior since 1999, which makes no sense to me. They have all of our lineage clear to the 1700’s of everyone of our members. They have all of our documents, which are documents we sent were either congressional, Interior, solicitor reports. All these major governmental entities, those are our documents. Agency reports, our rolls, all these things. So we’re still just waiting. You should write a letter to them, if you feel like it, and say “hey, what's the deal here? What’s the hold-up?”
I think that hits all my main ones, thank you!
Victor Pereyra
I'm going to introduce myself. My name is Victor Pereyra. I'm a super senior at UVU. I'm considered a legacy student. I left school like 10 years ago, and I was three or four classes shy of graduating.
Oh, no.
Yeah. I’ve had some life experiences and then finally, finally decided, hey, you know what, it's time to come back and finish. So I'm a little bit older. I'm not your traditional student. But I appreciate you taking your time on Sunday to talk to us. I'm originally from Houston, Texas. My mom's Mexican and my dad's from Argentina. And so my background is Latino. And when I came to UVU, one of the things that I wanted to study was philosophy and religion. When this class came about, and the project is Utah Lake and conservation, I chose to focus on the religious emphasis that I have. And I didn't want to take the obvious choice being the LDS faith. That's kind of the predominant religion here. So I really kind of just wanted to have a counter narrative. Who better than the native people that were here originally? Because I don't think we hear enough of those voices. So I think it's really vitally important just to hear that counter narrative. The first thing that I wanted to ask is, can you give a brief synopsis on the history of your people here in the area?
We lived out there. We hunted and we fished. We survived. We're just families living out there. Surviving. The area was kind of a hub. So there were a lot of people coming through. We were known as being friendly. Helping people when they were passing through, when Brigham Young first came, they were starving. Our people helped them for the first year. They got here in 1847 and 1850, put out an extermination order on us.
Oh, no.
Yeah. I’ve had some life experiences and then finally, finally decided, hey, you know what, it's time to come back and finish. So I'm a little bit older. I'm not your traditional student. But I appreciate you taking your time on Sunday to talk to us. I'm originally from Houston, Texas. My mom's Mexican and my dad's from Argentina. And so my background is Latino. And when I came to UVU, one of the things that I wanted to study was philosophy and religion. When this class came about, and the project is Utah Lake and conservation, I chose to focus on the religious emphasis that I have. And I didn't want to take the obvious choice being the LDS faith. That's kind of the predominant religion here. So I really kind of just wanted to have a counter narrative. Who better than the native people that were here originally? Because I don't think we hear enough of those voices. So I think it's really vitally important just to hear that counter narrative. The first thing that I wanted to ask is, can you give a brief synopsis on the history of your people here in the area?
We lived out there. We hunted and we fished. We survived. We're just families living out there. Surviving. The area was kind of a hub. So there were a lot of people coming through. We were known as being friendly. Helping people when they were passing through, when Brigham Young first came, they were starving. Our people helped them for the first year. They got here in 1847 and 1850, put out an extermination order on us.
Right now you're in eastern Utah, in the Fort Duchesne area, right? Yes. But you but that's not originally where your nation was located.
This was kind of a hunting area, you know, through the mountains out here and stuff. And nobody was really confined. There were no fences, no things like that. So you could travel and there was a lot of traveling back and forth up to the Tetons and down south and around. But that was our main stay. Home was out there on the Wasatch. And it's interesting because Turiunanchi is the grandfather of Walkara, Aeropean, Sanpitch, Ammon, Tabby, etc. Turiunanchi was also the headman of the Timpanogos Nation in 1776. And these men ruled the entire Wasatch. So it was all ruled by what did they call it, a monarch? I guess. You know, it was all one family that ruled the entire Wasatch. And all the little tribes that have come out of it around are all part of that. When they started annihilating, exterminating our people, then our people scattered. And then there were named different tribes, in different people because of that. And our fraction was moved out here to the reservation, which was set up for all of them. But some of them were hiding here and there or went to different places. And my family, I descend from Chief Walkara on my mother's side, and chief Aeropean on my father's side. One of my great grandparents was a Paiute, of the Pyramid Lake Paiute, all the same type of blood. We were brought out here. And then, one of the head guys, part of the extermination order for Utah, ended up being Critchlow. Brigham Young put him as our Indian agent and he continued the extermination order. When the Colorado Utes were having problems in Colorado, they moved them to Utah. He put them in charge of us, which was against the law, and not how it was supposed to be handled. But that is the baseline of all the confusions and frustrations and why they were recognized and we were not.
And to clarify, the Ute nation and the Timpanogos nation. They're two separate nations, right?
Yes and No. No of the Colorado Utes. The Ute nation consists of seven bands, four of which are here. You have the Uintah, the Yampah/Grandriver—they are called the Whiterivers. And then you have the Uncompahgre, which is claimed to be the Tabaguache. So you have those four bands there; that is the Ute tribe. And the other three bands are the southern Utes, there's the Muache and Kapote there, and the Wemminuche are the Ute Mountain Utes. So there's the Ute Nation. For the Timpanogos Nation, you have the Timp-nogs, the Pahvant, the Sanpitch, the Cucummbra, the Weber, all these people that are out on the Wasatch, were at one point part of the Timpanogos Nation. Now through treaties and things they've been divided and settled out, but that's the difference. We're not the same people. In fact, Chief Ouray of the Utes never came to Utah. He and chief Walkara did not get along. So he didn't come here. They were more enemies.
I appreciate you making that distinction because I think there's a common misconception that when you talk about the native people of Utah people only l think that it's the Ute tribe. And that's not really the reality
MMM-No, it's not and but there they are trying really hard to be us right now. It's crazy they had Robert Redford put a monument up saying that they were the original Indians of Utah which is not true according to government documents and everything else. I mean, it's just not true but I think they convinced him, so they put the monument up.
This was kind of a hunting area, you know, through the mountains out here and stuff. And nobody was really confined. There were no fences, no things like that. So you could travel and there was a lot of traveling back and forth up to the Tetons and down south and around. But that was our main stay. Home was out there on the Wasatch. And it's interesting because Turiunanchi is the grandfather of Walkara, Aeropean, Sanpitch, Ammon, Tabby, etc. Turiunanchi was also the headman of the Timpanogos Nation in 1776. And these men ruled the entire Wasatch. So it was all ruled by what did they call it, a monarch? I guess. You know, it was all one family that ruled the entire Wasatch. And all the little tribes that have come out of it around are all part of that. When they started annihilating, exterminating our people, then our people scattered. And then there were named different tribes, in different people because of that. And our fraction was moved out here to the reservation, which was set up for all of them. But some of them were hiding here and there or went to different places. And my family, I descend from Chief Walkara on my mother's side, and chief Aeropean on my father's side. One of my great grandparents was a Paiute, of the Pyramid Lake Paiute, all the same type of blood. We were brought out here. And then, one of the head guys, part of the extermination order for Utah, ended up being Critchlow. Brigham Young put him as our Indian agent and he continued the extermination order. When the Colorado Utes were having problems in Colorado, they moved them to Utah. He put them in charge of us, which was against the law, and not how it was supposed to be handled. But that is the baseline of all the confusions and frustrations and why they were recognized and we were not.
And to clarify, the Ute nation and the Timpanogos nation. They're two separate nations, right?
Yes and No. No of the Colorado Utes. The Ute nation consists of seven bands, four of which are here. You have the Uintah, the Yampah/Grandriver—they are called the Whiterivers. And then you have the Uncompahgre, which is claimed to be the Tabaguache. So you have those four bands there; that is the Ute tribe. And the other three bands are the southern Utes, there's the Muache and Kapote there, and the Wemminuche are the Ute Mountain Utes. So there's the Ute Nation. For the Timpanogos Nation, you have the Timp-nogs, the Pahvant, the Sanpitch, the Cucummbra, the Weber, all these people that are out on the Wasatch, were at one point part of the Timpanogos Nation. Now through treaties and things they've been divided and settled out, but that's the difference. We're not the same people. In fact, Chief Ouray of the Utes never came to Utah. He and chief Walkara did not get along. So he didn't come here. They were more enemies.
I appreciate you making that distinction because I think there's a common misconception that when you talk about the native people of Utah people only l think that it's the Ute tribe. And that's not really the reality
MMM-No, it's not and but there they are trying really hard to be us right now. It's crazy they had Robert Redford put a monument up saying that they were the original Indians of Utah which is not true according to government documents and everything else. I mean, it's just not true but I think they convinced him, so they put the monument up.
My area of emphasis being religion, can you talk a little bit about how religion or spirituality is practiced for the Timpanogos nation?
Native people in general are prayer people and in our religion, you would have, well you have your morning prayers, you get up early, go out do your own morning prayer and then you have some ceremonies for more serious praying, and you have a hunt because we need meat for the camps. Chiefs are the leaders for the hunt and he would take and refer to the spiritual leader. Your prayer person would pray to go where He thought it would be best and so everything was done through prayer.
Can I ask when you pray, do you pray to a deity ? And is it a single deity, monotheistic, or are there several spirits or deities?
Nama nama Sangha, I, that means our father. Great and Majestic of it is beautiful. So that's where you pray to, um, under him. Everything has, like the water has its own spirit that guides it. In Christianity, I guess you would call it angels. But the water has a spirit, the trees have a spirit, the animals all have a spirit that watches over them and takes care of them, and so on. Like to go hunting, you would pray and go out and wait, and the animal will come and give itself to you. You know, it's not the same as going out and hunting down an animal. These animals will sacrifice themselves to feed you. And so it's I guess, to answer your question, it's a one deity that controls everything but has a multitude of angels or spirits however you want to word it, that help deal with things.
Native people in general are prayer people and in our religion, you would have, well you have your morning prayers, you get up early, go out do your own morning prayer and then you have some ceremonies for more serious praying, and you have a hunt because we need meat for the camps. Chiefs are the leaders for the hunt and he would take and refer to the spiritual leader. Your prayer person would pray to go where He thought it would be best and so everything was done through prayer.
Can I ask when you pray, do you pray to a deity ? And is it a single deity, monotheistic, or are there several spirits or deities?
Nama nama Sangha, I, that means our father. Great and Majestic of it is beautiful. So that's where you pray to, um, under him. Everything has, like the water has its own spirit that guides it. In Christianity, I guess you would call it angels. But the water has a spirit, the trees have a spirit, the animals all have a spirit that watches over them and takes care of them, and so on. Like to go hunting, you would pray and go out and wait, and the animal will come and give itself to you. You know, it's not the same as going out and hunting down an animal. These animals will sacrifice themselves to feed you. And so it's I guess, to answer your question, it's a one deity that controls everything but has a multitude of angels or spirits however you want to word it, that help deal with things.
Talking specifically about Utah Lake. Are there any spiritual connections or rituals tied to the lake itself and to the Timpanogos people?
It would be the same for all waters. That Lake has significance because it fed our people. The Great Salt Lake had significance because of the salt. There's an old story, it's written in one of the history books, it's so funny. Pegleg was left at the camp because they figured he was going to die. He had gotten shot in the leg and he had gangrene, his leg was as big as his waist. And so they brought him to our people, and left him there basically to die. But our people cured him and got him back on his feet. He's sitting in camp, and they give him a bowl of soup. And before he can eat it, this little boy walks past with two rocks waving them over his food and he's freaking out, because he just put rock in my food. But it was salt. He was salting his food for him. And I just thought that was funny. So there's the salt. So you pray for that, we pray for the waters, different ceremonies, depending on the spiritual person that's doing it and how they're guided or handled differently. If you are the spiritual leader, and you're asked to go out and pray over the water, you're going to pray how you're directed. And nobody's going to judge you on what you do. Because that's how you were directed to pray. Where maybe later in time you send a different spiritual leader out to pray. And he's going to pray probably differently than the other one.
When you say “Pray over the water”, what would the purpose, or the aim of praying over the water be?
To protect it, and help it flourish. And just ask for it to be pure, that it does good. There's a story that Sioux people have that I find really interesting. When they pray for their water up there. There's a river that runs through the housing up there, and all the people drink it. But if you were to go there and drink it, you might get sick. But their person goes out and prays over that water. And other people are protected if there's any bacteria or anything in it, and they don't get sick. So you're praying for purity, and you're praying for sustenance, you're praying that that water remains, you just blessing it basically.
It would be the same for all waters. That Lake has significance because it fed our people. The Great Salt Lake had significance because of the salt. There's an old story, it's written in one of the history books, it's so funny. Pegleg was left at the camp because they figured he was going to die. He had gotten shot in the leg and he had gangrene, his leg was as big as his waist. And so they brought him to our people, and left him there basically to die. But our people cured him and got him back on his feet. He's sitting in camp, and they give him a bowl of soup. And before he can eat it, this little boy walks past with two rocks waving them over his food and he's freaking out, because he just put rock in my food. But it was salt. He was salting his food for him. And I just thought that was funny. So there's the salt. So you pray for that, we pray for the waters, different ceremonies, depending on the spiritual person that's doing it and how they're guided or handled differently. If you are the spiritual leader, and you're asked to go out and pray over the water, you're going to pray how you're directed. And nobody's going to judge you on what you do. Because that's how you were directed to pray. Where maybe later in time you send a different spiritual leader out to pray. And he's going to pray probably differently than the other one.
When you say “Pray over the water”, what would the purpose, or the aim of praying over the water be?
To protect it, and help it flourish. And just ask for it to be pure, that it does good. There's a story that Sioux people have that I find really interesting. When they pray for their water up there. There's a river that runs through the housing up there, and all the people drink it. But if you were to go there and drink it, you might get sick. But their person goes out and prays over that water. And other people are protected if there's any bacteria or anything in it, and they don't get sick. So you're praying for purity, and you're praying for sustenance, you're praying that that water remains, you just blessing it basically.
When you when you talk about the conservation and all the chemicals that are being put into it, all the just negative things that are happening around the lake that diminish its purity and diminish its cleanliness, that's, that's really important to, to the native people because it's a disrespect the lake. And if you look at the lake, and in terms of it being protected, and it being a spiritually significant place, that disrespect is magnified on a different level than just not conserving it. So, yeah, I think it's really important for people to understand that the Timpanogos people and the native people view the lake not just as something recreational or a resource but on a different spiritual level. So again, I appreciate you kind of clarified that and given us an insight to what that means for your people.
You know, it's not only for our people, but there's a lot of people out there now that utilize the lake and they need to have respect for it. They need to understand that a lot of people do not understand the concept of reality nowadays. Water is life, without water we die. It's not always going to be there if it's not cared for. It was like, like this woman I was cutting up a deer and she walked in my house and she freaked completely out. She said, why don't you just go to the store and buy meat where no animals are harmed? Ha! Yeah. And that kind of concept is like, you know, was like, it's always gonna be there. Well, maybe it won't be if we don't take care of it. And that's why conservation is important, and respect for the water and prayers. And these types of things need to be instilled in people so that they recognize that it's not about money, that's not what it's for. Money should not be the priority. Recreation and having fun should not be the priority. Although, you know, people going out and enjoying the lake, that's fine. But you can enjoy it if it's not going to be there. And that's why preserving it is so important. The last project that was said to, well, the LRS, you're wanting to put a big city out in the middle of that lake. That was just, I'm thinking of all the trash, you know, four major highways across there, I'm thinking of all the trash, the debris, the salt, all the stuff that's gonna go into that water. Because people are messy. I mean, you know, some people are cleaner than others. But in general, we all make trash. And so I'm thinking of the lake just filled with garbage. If you put the people out in the middle of the lake en masse, it would be terrible.
and that shows some people's just lack of awareness of what really the lake signifies, correct?
Yeah, that Lake means a lot to people in this area, Some just see it as a capitalistic adventure. And that's it. And there's no other thought behind it, what else that means to the environment, to the people around the area. It's just dollar signs. It's short sighted and disrespectful. I think that's why these conversations are important.
You know, it's not only for our people, but there's a lot of people out there now that utilize the lake and they need to have respect for it. They need to understand that a lot of people do not understand the concept of reality nowadays. Water is life, without water we die. It's not always going to be there if it's not cared for. It was like, like this woman I was cutting up a deer and she walked in my house and she freaked completely out. She said, why don't you just go to the store and buy meat where no animals are harmed? Ha! Yeah. And that kind of concept is like, you know, was like, it's always gonna be there. Well, maybe it won't be if we don't take care of it. And that's why conservation is important, and respect for the water and prayers. And these types of things need to be instilled in people so that they recognize that it's not about money, that's not what it's for. Money should not be the priority. Recreation and having fun should not be the priority. Although, you know, people going out and enjoying the lake, that's fine. But you can enjoy it if it's not going to be there. And that's why preserving it is so important. The last project that was said to, well, the LRS, you're wanting to put a big city out in the middle of that lake. That was just, I'm thinking of all the trash, you know, four major highways across there, I'm thinking of all the trash, the debris, the salt, all the stuff that's gonna go into that water. Because people are messy. I mean, you know, some people are cleaner than others. But in general, we all make trash. And so I'm thinking of the lake just filled with garbage. If you put the people out in the middle of the lake en masse, it would be terrible.
and that shows some people's just lack of awareness of what really the lake signifies, correct?
Yeah, that Lake means a lot to people in this area, Some just see it as a capitalistic adventure. And that's it. And there's no other thought behind it, what else that means to the environment, to the people around the area. It's just dollar signs. It's short sighted and disrespectful. I think that's why these conversations are important.
Just to let people know that there's many different aspects besides just the commercial aspect.
Preserving the water supply is very, very vital to everybody living out there. Do you think people would stay there if the Great Salt Lake and Utah Lake both dried up? There's no water then? That's why it's so important. Agreed! Mary, Thank you so much. We really appreciate your time. Thank you for sharing your insights with us and for educating us. We really hope to be able to educate people and let people know that the Timpanogos Nation is still here, and they still need to be heard. Your people are a part of the history of this area, and deserve to be heard on the matter of the conservation of Utah Lake. Yes. Thank you. |