Interview by Carlos Plummer
Professor Hungerford, can you introduce yourself and provide some of your background, perhaps explain what the daily life of a geographer looks like for those who are not as familiar with your profession?
When I got into geography, it was when I was in undergrad, and it took like a world regional geography class, and I just loved it, I loved exploring the world! But what I really liked about geography and that first class was how it combined both natural science and social science. So, it was really the first class I took that just spurred my interest, and then I continued on to get a PhD in geography. But what I think I love about geography is how it's a really good discipline to understand the world around us because it takes seriously natural science and the environment as much as the basic physical processes. How do people impact these and how are people impacted by these? So, this relationship between humans and their environment, has been taken seriously for a long time in geography and that’s what I love about it.
Next, I wanted to jump in and talk a little bit more about our project and ask about your research. Why Utah Lake?
So, when I moved to Utah, which was in 2015 actually, I lived over by WinCo in Orem in the apartments over there and our balcony faced Utah Lake so we'd watch the sunset over the lake and it was just so beautiful! And I was all struck by like ‘‘why is nobody there?!’’ I just didn't understand it. I grew up in Colorado mostly and I was always like ‘‘I don't get it’’.
Colorado is such an outdoor recreation state, and I was like, ‘‘why aren't more people out?” That was really a mystery to me. So, then I started reading and studying and a really influential book for me was ‘‘Zion’s Mount’’ by Jared Farmer. That's where I really got to learn about Utah Lake and its history. And then, after that I just read some more of the contemporary issues around the lake, I was like ‘‘oh my gosh, this is perfect thing for a geographer to study our relationship with this giant lake and this public perception that we have that that it's gross or nasty!’’ It really isn't, it's just a different kind of lake than people imagine.
So, that also interested some of my colleagues in the earth science department. They study the water quality issues on the lake so that was a really nice introduction for me too. People around me were already working on it and I was like ‘‘oh there's not a lot of social science research around the lake’’ so that's where I felt like I could really add something. It all just kind of came together. I think part of it is that — I don't know where you live, but if you live in Orem or Provo area, you have all these stores called ‘‘Timpanogos’’ or ‘‘Cascade’’. Everything that's named around here is named after the mountains, so I believe that on a subconscious level we're trying to relate our cultural identity to the mountains. I mean, nothing is named, for example ‘‘Utah Lake Rental’’, there's nothing named after the lake. It's really odd to be around here and notice that, on a subconscious level, what's really valuable here it's the mountains and not the lake. There are problems with the lake, for sure. There are harmful algal blooms in the summer; they're pretty isolated most of the time. But it's gotten a lot better actually. In the past 15 years, there's been a lot of investment: removing carp and getting rid of these invasive grasses and preserving the June Sucker, the native June Sucker! I mean we have a fish that exists nowhere else in the world than in Utah Lake, how cool is that?! Why don't we celebrate that and why don't we name things after that?
I completely agree with you, I think these small details, even subconsciously, are the ones that unfortunately make us overlook something as great as Utah Lake. A question that came up as I came across your report was about the term ‘‘political urban ecology’’. What does it mean?
Oh yes so that's a particular field of study in geography politics, political ecology. Really what political ecology or urban political ecology ask is ‘‘how do politics impact the environment?’’. ‘‘How does policy, how does the way that laws are made, how does that impact what's happening in our natural system?’’ I really really like that way of thinking because we can know the science on how to fix something but that's not enough. We have to know the politics; we have to know what policies to make, and we have to know how to make those policies. That's what political ecology helps us do.
For the last question, I wanted to mention that we had the opportunity also to interview BYU professor Ben Abbott. He is also in the ecology branch and one of the things that he shared, speaking from a religious perspective, is that his biggest desire is that as a member the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (and we have such a big population of LDS here in Utah) is to be able to incorporate the lake as part almost of our religion. To be able to see and treat it almost like our neighbor.
So, for you, perhaps more on a political perspective, what is your biggest desire as a community for Utah Lake? If you had the power to influence people to do something regarding the lake what would that be?
Oh, that's a really good question! I'm not part of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints but I do support the idea of having this kind of ethical view towards creation. I think that goes across many faiths, but I think I would like for our community to think about just how special Utah Lake is and how lucky we are to have a resource like that here. To have it be something that people are like: ‘‘oh it's Saturday night, what should we do? Oh, I know let's go have a picnic at the lake!’’. Something that people want to have a relationship with. I do really think that if we don't know anything about it, we're not going to care about it. But if we start interacting with the lake, engaging with everything there is by the lake, then people will start to care and people maybe would support some of these cleanup efforts or making some changes to our water treatment stations. A lot of times those are really expensive, so maybe you have to find some public that is willing to pay a little bit higher price for water if it means that our lake is going to be clean!
I would like to develop more of an ethic for water conservation, because I think it would ultimately impact the lake too. Mostly I would help people realize and rethink some of the current practices that we have in our community that are not sustainable and that end up affecting negatively the lake. Maybe we need to rethink how we use water in our houses.
I think that's what I would do, especially not being from Utah. There's a lot happening in Utah Lake and it's only going to get better. With the new Utah Lake Authority Board I serve on, there's a body that's really dedicated to managing the lake and I think we have had a lot of really good developments. I'm excited to see the next 20 years of the lake, I think it's going to be a lot better.
Professor Hungerford, can you introduce yourself and provide some of your background, perhaps explain what the daily life of a geographer looks like for those who are not as familiar with your profession?
When I got into geography, it was when I was in undergrad, and it took like a world regional geography class, and I just loved it, I loved exploring the world! But what I really liked about geography and that first class was how it combined both natural science and social science. So, it was really the first class I took that just spurred my interest, and then I continued on to get a PhD in geography. But what I think I love about geography is how it's a really good discipline to understand the world around us because it takes seriously natural science and the environment as much as the basic physical processes. How do people impact these and how are people impacted by these? So, this relationship between humans and their environment, has been taken seriously for a long time in geography and that’s what I love about it.
Next, I wanted to jump in and talk a little bit more about our project and ask about your research. Why Utah Lake?
So, when I moved to Utah, which was in 2015 actually, I lived over by WinCo in Orem in the apartments over there and our balcony faced Utah Lake so we'd watch the sunset over the lake and it was just so beautiful! And I was all struck by like ‘‘why is nobody there?!’’ I just didn't understand it. I grew up in Colorado mostly and I was always like ‘‘I don't get it’’.
Colorado is such an outdoor recreation state, and I was like, ‘‘why aren't more people out?” That was really a mystery to me. So, then I started reading and studying and a really influential book for me was ‘‘Zion’s Mount’’ by Jared Farmer. That's where I really got to learn about Utah Lake and its history. And then, after that I just read some more of the contemporary issues around the lake, I was like ‘‘oh my gosh, this is perfect thing for a geographer to study our relationship with this giant lake and this public perception that we have that that it's gross or nasty!’’ It really isn't, it's just a different kind of lake than people imagine.
So, that also interested some of my colleagues in the earth science department. They study the water quality issues on the lake so that was a really nice introduction for me too. People around me were already working on it and I was like ‘‘oh there's not a lot of social science research around the lake’’ so that's where I felt like I could really add something. It all just kind of came together. I think part of it is that — I don't know where you live, but if you live in Orem or Provo area, you have all these stores called ‘‘Timpanogos’’ or ‘‘Cascade’’. Everything that's named around here is named after the mountains, so I believe that on a subconscious level we're trying to relate our cultural identity to the mountains. I mean, nothing is named, for example ‘‘Utah Lake Rental’’, there's nothing named after the lake. It's really odd to be around here and notice that, on a subconscious level, what's really valuable here it's the mountains and not the lake. There are problems with the lake, for sure. There are harmful algal blooms in the summer; they're pretty isolated most of the time. But it's gotten a lot better actually. In the past 15 years, there's been a lot of investment: removing carp and getting rid of these invasive grasses and preserving the June Sucker, the native June Sucker! I mean we have a fish that exists nowhere else in the world than in Utah Lake, how cool is that?! Why don't we celebrate that and why don't we name things after that?
I completely agree with you, I think these small details, even subconsciously, are the ones that unfortunately make us overlook something as great as Utah Lake. A question that came up as I came across your report was about the term ‘‘political urban ecology’’. What does it mean?
Oh yes so that's a particular field of study in geography politics, political ecology. Really what political ecology or urban political ecology ask is ‘‘how do politics impact the environment?’’. ‘‘How does policy, how does the way that laws are made, how does that impact what's happening in our natural system?’’ I really really like that way of thinking because we can know the science on how to fix something but that's not enough. We have to know the politics; we have to know what policies to make, and we have to know how to make those policies. That's what political ecology helps us do.
For the last question, I wanted to mention that we had the opportunity also to interview BYU professor Ben Abbott. He is also in the ecology branch and one of the things that he shared, speaking from a religious perspective, is that his biggest desire is that as a member the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (and we have such a big population of LDS here in Utah) is to be able to incorporate the lake as part almost of our religion. To be able to see and treat it almost like our neighbor.
So, for you, perhaps more on a political perspective, what is your biggest desire as a community for Utah Lake? If you had the power to influence people to do something regarding the lake what would that be?
Oh, that's a really good question! I'm not part of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints but I do support the idea of having this kind of ethical view towards creation. I think that goes across many faiths, but I think I would like for our community to think about just how special Utah Lake is and how lucky we are to have a resource like that here. To have it be something that people are like: ‘‘oh it's Saturday night, what should we do? Oh, I know let's go have a picnic at the lake!’’. Something that people want to have a relationship with. I do really think that if we don't know anything about it, we're not going to care about it. But if we start interacting with the lake, engaging with everything there is by the lake, then people will start to care and people maybe would support some of these cleanup efforts or making some changes to our water treatment stations. A lot of times those are really expensive, so maybe you have to find some public that is willing to pay a little bit higher price for water if it means that our lake is going to be clean!
I would like to develop more of an ethic for water conservation, because I think it would ultimately impact the lake too. Mostly I would help people realize and rethink some of the current practices that we have in our community that are not sustainable and that end up affecting negatively the lake. Maybe we need to rethink how we use water in our houses.
I think that's what I would do, especially not being from Utah. There's a lot happening in Utah Lake and it's only going to get better. With the new Utah Lake Authority Board I serve on, there's a body that's really dedicated to managing the lake and I think we have had a lot of really good developments. I'm excited to see the next 20 years of the lake, I think it's going to be a lot better.